OK…so the bar is only literal when MindFlow plays a show, and most of the multiple hours I spent talking with Rodrigo Hidalgo (guitarist and composer) and Danilo Herbert (vocalist) were over that beautiful thing called Skype (they are, after all, in Brazil, and I am in the US). So here it is…spirituality and music (mostly heavy metal) all wrapped into one. And it all translates to life.
[Fun fact: I whittled this interview down from 23 pages! Enjoy!]
For Rodrigo Hidalgo, each of the band members represents a different balancing element, and the balance is what keeps it all together. “Danilo (vocalist) is like the sea—calm and gentle; Rafael (drummer and composer) is like the air—creative with a happy heart; Ricardo (bassist) is like the earth—grounded and thoughtful; and I am like the fire—aggressive…. I’d rather fly for two minutes than walk for 80 years. And I’m not sure that’s necessarily a good thing,” Rodrigo says.
Rodrigo has been practicing Buddhism and listening to heavy metal since he was 15. And he sees all music (yes, heavy metal too) and spirituality as one thing. People have told him how much of a collision the two parts of him are, but for him, it is all about balance; meditation and playing music both keep him grounded.
Danilo was raised in a spiritual family, as a Spiritualist, a faith that believes people are spirits on earth and each soul lives a thousand incarnations, all with the objective of evolution of the soul (very similar to Buddhism). “Evolution comes from struggle,” Danilo says. Though he still holds the belief of his childhood, he’s open to all faiths, “because I believe that almost all the paths lead to that…to the light,” he says.
Heather: What is the most spiritual part of playing music for you?
Rodrigo: Life is everywhere. I try to look at a rose in the same way I look at a rat, you know? Sometimes you have a preconcept about things, like a shark…a dangerous animal…you have to stay away from it…but I think the shark is like a rose…it’s same thing. I see music and spirituality like that. It’s all one thing.
Heather: MindFlow’s music has evolved recently, from very technical progressive metal to a more open and accessible heavy rock. Why?
Rodrigo: We wanted to be free when we play live. When we played our earlier stuff, like from Mind over Body, it was like a meditation process live…. The music was more internal. We couldn’t pass our energy to the crowd. So, we started opening up our music, making it more accessible, as a response because we wanted to give it all to the crowd.
Danilo: And we’re enjoying this new direction for MindFlow. I can tell it’s a real challenge for us…to be simple. We always have the tendency to get complex in our music; so simplicity is a great exercise. If you look back to history, the most successful artists and songs are the most simple ones. Because they connect, not only because they are simple, but also because they’re true.
I think the most difficult part and the greatest challenge is to get a complex idea and put it in a simple shape. The more you try to struggle to get a song to be the best piece you’ve ever done, you cannot…. You have to make it true in the moment, because there will be more jobs, more challenges, more songs. Try to do your best always but don’t try to work on it until it’s perfect. We can’t do it. It just wastes time. And time is very valuable.
Heather: I think it also speaks to life…it’s so complicated and complex and I think people, a lot of times, go to music to escape the complexities of their own lives. So maybe, the simpler the song, all they really have to do is feel it. But that’s hard for a lot of people too.
Danilo: Yes, and now I think because of this exercise in simplicity, we’re closer to our personal style. We still have our influences, but now we’re getting closer to something we call “our sound.”
Heather: So you’re finding your voice.
Danilo: Yes, yes. Another reason: We have this habit to challenge ourselves to do something different on every new project. It’s very different to do songs that are much more straight-to-the-point…but still progressive…and still have the depth…to be profound…to be deep.
Heather: That in itself is very spiritual. Yoga and meditation is all about simplicity—be simple, be simple, come back to the breath, which is the most challenging and complex thing to do. So I see the opening of MindFlow’s sound as a spiritual process, really. After all, change is one of the only constants in life.
Danilo: Yes. Beautifully said. That is a universal truth.
Heather: The MindFlow experience is really about opening up your mind and letting it flow. That’s very spiritual. Are you finding there’s a separation between spirituality and metal music?
Danilo: I think it depends on what do you believe. Because I know people that for them metal is a religion. It’s a way of life. And I think a religion can be anything. A religion is something where you put your belief. So it can be music, metal, it can be light…. I believe in this world, we can’t see the spiritual. We can just feel the spiritual. So it demands your belief to “see” the spiritual.
Heather: How does the foundation of your spiritual beliefs translate into your vocals, your melodies?
Danilo: I’m always trying to get a way to unify that kind of thing…to get to the real good stuff. Sometimes, it seems like the melody doesn’t come from me but through me…from another place. I think I don’t have too much control over this. And when I try to get to this place, I just can’t…it comes to me.
Heather: Can you feel it when that happens or not?
Danilo: Yes, oh definitely. When you get this thing, you can feel it…in a sudden moment you get to…an epiphany.
Heather: What has music meant to you in your life?
Danilo: It’s a place where I can really feel at home. Feel like I’m at peace, and that’s something. I can attach myself and feel like a part of something, like I never felt before. Music is part of me, and I feel like I’m part of music. Because before I got to this conclusion, I never felt like I was part of something. I was kind of alone. Like I had no meaning…but now I feel like I’m complete.
A famous Brazilian politician once said: “Music is inner life…and who has inner life shall never suffer from solitude.” This is how I feel.
Heather: You do music for yourselves, first and foremost, which we do the art for ourselves and hope that it will speak to other people, right?
Danilo: To be honest, yeah, I just want to play.
Heather: Is there a point when you make it about something greater—it’s not the self, it’s not the other…it’s all at once, when things really do become one.
Rodrigo: When I wrote those lyrics for “Break Me Out,” I was writing for me…it’s like a message, so you can be strong and keep fighting and not fall for anything. It’s for me…it’s a message for me…and I noticed many people relate to that. So, now I try to write more about that stuff and hope people will relate more.
Heather: That just reiterates my whole belief that you have to make things personal to make them universal.
Rodrigo: Yes. Because the thing has to be true. You can’t lie about what you write because then it becomes the truth for everybody.
Danilo: When you put yourself inside the song, when you write a song because something happened to you…and the song is born…then when somebody comes to you and says, “Man, I was feeling this way, and I listened to your song, and it was like somebody was talking directly to me.” That shows that we made something good. I think that’s the moment.
And somehow you feel like you did something good for someone else, and I don’t know why we feel this way, because you actually do it for yourself. If what you do makes someone’s life a little better, then it’s good.
Heather: Talk about the creation process. Through it, what do you learn about yourself, the world?
Danilo: It’s all evolution. I think studying the voice is a very good way to get to know myself better. I have this kind of experience every day. The more I study the voice, the more I realize what is most important is to use your voice naturally, and from that point I realize that every aspect of life has to be that way. It’s the best way to do anything: to have a conversation, to do a job, to solve a problem. The key is to be simple, because it’s the most difficult thing, at least for me. And the more I study, I realize, the less I know.
Rodrigo: I don’t stay on one song for too long. If it gets too complicated, I throw it away and start again. I have to feel it in my heart. And I have to let go of it. If the song is too difficult to write or finish, then something is wrong.
For example, when I start a song and I have a part that I really like but I can’t figure out what comes next or before, I let go of that part…even though I like it. The point is to try to erase yourself so you can deliver the best.
Heather: When fans come to your shows, there are people from all walks of life—religions, politics, backgrounds—and they’re sitting there and singing your words…. So basically, the fans are united through singing your songs, and that’s such a powerful thing. I’m wondering if you have an opinion on the camaraderie that music can create.
Rodrigo: I think it’s a huge thing for us, and I get very emotional every time we play and I see someone singing our lyrics. It’s a very strong feeling. I think people relate to music differently than how they relate to politics or religion because I think they see the music as their own. Music gives color to life. So I think when people hear a song and they relate to it and like it, it becomes a part of the people. It’s theirs now; it’s not MindFlow’s anymore. So that’s why I think people get united by music because they think the music is a part of them. So everybody is sharing the same thing.
I think religion should be like that but I think the problem is not religion but the people. Because people always try to compare—oh, my religion is better than yours—and when you compare yourself to others, you kind of lose yourself.
Heather: How do you feel when you’re performing on stage?
Danilo: I really feel good at these times, like I have a connection to all the people. For me, it’s the most important thing, because when you get that connection, it’s at a higher level. Because it’s not all you, it’s someone else too. No matter wherever you and they are from…all the distance, all the differences go away in that moment.
There’s a real exchange of energy, and in some way, it demands energy of you.
Heather: Deep thoughts on life?
Danilo: You have to close your eyes and jump. People ask me, “How do you prepare your voice, how do you get your voice in shape?” And I just answer, I practice and pray then jump. That’s the only thing I can do. My mom always taught me this. When we want to have the control of life, we always break down…we don’t have control. We can do the right thing in the present…that’s the way we view the future. It’s when we try to have the control of our life, we lose it. You have to be just like the water…just flow…just flow.
Rodrigo: I have a painting in my house that’s right in front of the door that I read every time I come in and go out. I try to do what it says there—It says you have to focus on the present, not be sad about the past, and don’t worry about the future. It’s very hard. And I forget it every day. I have to read it twice a day, but still I’m not able to do that. So it’s a lifetime training.
Heather: Do you think that music brings people to life?
Danilo: I think so, because music carries feelings and this is contagious. If you can feel, then you’re alive.
Heather: Music is a powerful force.
Danilo: We discover that in times that we don’t have anything to hold on to. When we are lost or when we have lost everything, we have our belief, whether that shows up as music or something else. Music is one of the most powerful things. And at the same time, it’s so simple. What do you need to do music? You need almost nothing. With the feeling that the song carries, you can communicate with the whole world.
Heather: And so is spirituality.
Rodrigo: I always think meditation is a tool for your day. If you can use that technique through the day, not only when you’re sitting down, then that’s powerful. It’s very easy to be in peace when you’re meditating on the beach or in the sea, but you have to be calm when everything’s a mess. So that’s the reason meditation exists, so you can be prepared, because the world is tough.
True, life is tough and beautiful and everything in between. And both music and spirituality can be a place to discover the self and through that, each other.
Namaste, beauties. Go forth and shine as only you can!
Listen to “Break Me Out” and “Breakthrough” by MindFlow
Up next–Universal Love a conversation with Daniel Cavanagh of Anathema (on February 14)
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Rusty Costanza, The Times-PicayuneRabbi Robert Loewy of Congregation Gates of Prayer will talk about Abraham.